The only reason the 'producer'/'engineer' thing is weird, Bri, is because fucking higher ups in the music industry made it weird. As this bunch of people gets paid more and more money, they trick up and coming bands into thinking that they absolutely need a producer. There's a very specific track for bands these days. A manager gets a band, gets them in the studio... lets them record, produce... whatever. You know, waste a few months on some label's money. Then they pick one song, knowing the whole time that the one they pick, they're going to send off to be remixed or even recut by a big name producer-guy and get on MTV. It's the 'one — hit wonder' thing. That's why you have a band like Weezer, who was huge as fuck last year, now opening for No Doubt, who is huge as fuck this year, who next year is gonna be opening for someone else. The 22 Brides thing Red and I did... They took the single and sent it off to this guy, Tim... Tim O'Heir I think his name is... I could be wrong, actually. I really don't know who it was... but they went into his studio, probably recut it on 48 tracks or something, quantized shit, double and triple tracked instruments... I don't know... and now the CD single that came out is that take. That's just how it seems to be now.
Does that bother you a lot?
Yeah, It does bother me, actually. I made no mistakes with that recording. It was done when it left the studio. The way it was, was the way we intended for it to be. The only reason it was redone is because somebody higher up in the music industry thought it should be redone... and you already know how much disdain we have for people like that.
So I guess that seems to set things off balance as far as the commercial weight that one song carries verses the value of the album as a whole.
Well, it's not even that. That song is actually not on the album. The album cut was called "Lullabye". But the version they redid was for radio only. It was on a CD single and it was named "Lullabye '97" or something like that. So it's not even about the album. It's about having a radio hit.
Do you think that's going to be a lasting trend? Or do you think that it's always been like that? Because I think that for the last few years this Lo-fi/DIY/Independent rock thing has made it possible for beginners like us to record someone and actually hear it played on the radio, no matter how crappy it sounds.
Well, I would like to say it could be like that again, but I think really what is happening is that our peers, who we were lucky enough record back then at that stage, are coming up and getting caught up in it all too. But hey, I might get caught up in it too. [he smiles and begins to pick up speed] If I were getting paid to take four months to make a record, I might just be an editing, cocaine-snorting fool — me and Billy Corgan sitting around doing nothing but wipe our asses a few weeks at a time." [He breaks out in a roar of laughter. A few seconds passes, he looks around] We're not being very technical are we... hmm
But I seem to think that lots of bands don't want to call us producers, they'd rather say 'recorded by...' or 'mixed by...' And I think that in a backward sort of way that it's because we're not getting paid a shitload of money.
I talk about how hypothetically I'd walk into Cycle Sound during the Bardo sessions and there'd be a bunch of people mostly on a couch reading, and one guy's saying they want another guitar in this or that song. From there J would go to work. He'd get really excited and say, "Yeeeeah, cool. Let's take the Marshall.... or something huuuuge like that... and," his eyes getting wider the whole time, "we'll hang a 414 from the ceiling in the Warehouse, like 30 ft. up... something fucking totally sick like that." The band would look around, until someone let out a half-stuttered, marijuana-tone "Yea... Yeeeeaahh!."
In that situation, I think, the album's a little bit of your art as well, J. I always picture that to be the role of the producer. Don't you think that right there, by being so genuinely involved and creative, you're doing as much if not more for an artist than someone who's biggest contribution is their name and a big hole in the label's bank account?"
Exactly, Bri... [he smiles as I'm getting just a bit overly passionate, and puts his fist on the coffee table], I want to be that guy... the one who does less for bands, and takes most of the money! [Another burst of laughter.]
I figure I should drop the subject for fear he was starting to get too much of a kick out of me. In an attempt to talk technical, I ask him his opinion of the recent outburst of "retro-sixties style" recordings. I mention the Olivia Tremor Control, the Apples, etc., all of whom he seemed to know very little about. But he does have something to say.
Clothes, bikes, cars, music... everything, it seems, has to be retro. [He mentions that he, on the other hand, feels the bulk of these recordings are just poorer quality.] I don't know, Bri. I'll say two things... First of all, I'm a nineties-guy. I hate the eighties, I hate the seventies, sixties, fifties... I just want to look ahead. [He trails off to talking about Aphex Twin, but I'm not sure that his second point ever got made.]
Now that [Aphex Twin] is THE BEST shit! It really is something new... drill sounds and shit... ambient, fantasy — J.R.R. Tolkien kind of background stuff. This guy is a super — genius. Jud and I listened to it the whole tour. We've got to get a sampler for the studio, Bri, [talking about Cycle Sound]. You can just do the sickest shit... really!
What kind does Jud use for Reservoir?
It's about the $1000-range AKAI. I don't know much about it, but it fucking rules.
Do you have any plans to record with him soon, or is Reservoir going to be all self recorded by him?
He talked a little about doing some drum samples here at Cycle, and up at Red's in New York, and then just choosing his favorite segments to sample from... He's a sick drummer, though, you know it? Whatever comes of it, I'm sure will be crazy. The last album was done all on 4 track, but I'm not sure what this one's gonna be like. Probably more digital stuff, I don't know.
I don't think I have ever heard you say anything about 4 Tracks, or home recording experience. How were you first introduced to recording music?
In general, I have about five minutes of experience with 4 tracks.. No, not even that much. But I remember when I was little, in like third grade... listening to like, "Reunited" and "Hot Child in the City". I'd make tapes using the three-band EQ. It sounds hokey, but I remember that shit. I was the kid at school who always carried around the tape recorder... you remember, the kind where the record button is a little red dot in the play button." [That, he finds particularly funny and laughs for a while.] I had one of those. And, you know, fuckers would be following me around the school yard... I'd be playing 'Life in the Fast Lane,' and like, Three Dog Night, and shit. [He really can not stop laughing.]
So I always wanted to be into that shit. When I was in college, I was bored... went into the Marine Corp, and after about a year I realized I had to go to recording school. [Note: he spent another three and a half in the Marines, one of which he was at Desert Storm.] I enrolled when I got out at Full Sail Center for the Recording Arts in Florida. It was basically overpriced... like $20,000 for a one year Associates Degree. There were some great classes, but a lot of throw away shit too... like a music video course I couldn't give a shit about.
I interned at Third Story Recording in West Philly, making DAT copies was about all I did. I was looking around . I needed something, and I heard Red's Place got flooded, and he was going to be opening a new place [by this he's referring to Adam Lasus's basement studio in Queens Village, Philadelphia]. I didn't know him, but I gave my resume to Dave Frank the Manager. We all met and that's when I really got started.
I started out assisting with Red mostly in the beginning. Later with Kittywinder, Sugarplant, Varnaline and all that, it was pretty much equal, at least that's how I approached it. And that was nice of Red. He definitely didn't have to do that.
So you were getting "producer's" credits then, even though... [Laugh] you probably weren't getting paid like one...
Yeah... well, you see, Bri... [Stretching his arms out] Isn't that's the basic rule? "NOBODY GETS PAID!"... I mean, it's not "getting paid" unless you can just like... do nothing for six months at a time, but... take drugs and go around the world, or something. [He laughs for a second.]
But I'm sure... that if eventually we were making a little money, there'd be a whole bunch of shit that'd come with it anyway. You start becoming a little crazy. You feel cheated. You feel like you're always getting screwed. I mean, listen to Jello Biafra... that guy just sounds like a sniveling, sneezing... bitch. To him everything's a conspiracy. He's always saying how much he's been fucked.
