Let's try to set the scene for those sessions, starting with the console you used.
When we did the Stones' sessions, we had a Universal Audio console with tube modules, the one with the big rotary knobs, knobs as big as your hand. We had 10 inputs. There was some fixed EQ on it, a fixed low end at 100 Hz, and you could go two clicks of boost at 2 and 4 dB, and you could roll back to minus 3. But that's all it was. It also had an echo send on it. Back then, we were using a live chamber. It wasn't until a year after that we got an EMT plate. Of course, we were uptown then!
Did you get the Universal modules new, or from another studio?
We bought all the modules new and put it in our own little console frame. We had a cabinetmaker build us a console, the same as Rick did over at Fame — this was the same thing he had. At the time, it was one of the best things you could get, depending on your budget. Our budget wasn't too big at the time.
And what kind of tape machines did you have?
We had a Scully 8-track, a 1", and it was great. We had no noise reduction, though back then we cut a lot of stuff at 15 ips. We just packed a lot of it on! And the tape was very forgiving, so as a result it turned out well. We got a lot of saturation, and that kind of became part of the sound. I don't even remember any noise reduction at the time. I know there wasn't any when we went up to Atlantic in '66.
So the Stones' "Brown Sugar" was tracked to that Scully?
Yes it was, at 15 ips.
What tape formulation?
Back then it was Scotch (3M), but as far as the name or the number, I really can't remember. It was whatever the top of the line was at the time, and we kept the machine biased and set up for it. I used one roll a night, so three rolls of 1" went back to London with them, along with the rough mixes.
Were you the chief engineer for the studio back then?
Well, at the time we had a couple of guys, Marlin Greene, he was also a guitar player and a producer around town, and there were times when I was playing that he would be engineering. Then we started bringing on assistants. That was in a few years — Steve Melton in about '72 and Jerry Masters in '74 or '75.
But you were the only engineer on hand for the Stones' sessions?
Yes, I did all those myself, along with my assistant, Larry Hamby. It was supposed to be Jimmy Miller, from what I understand, but he didn't show up. It was my intention to assist him when the whole thing started, because I heard they would be bringing their own people. As it was, he never made it down. So I became the unofficial official engineer for all those sessions.
Did that intimidate you, considering their stature and reputation?
Not really. I admit I wasn't that knowledgeable about the Stones at the time, in the sense that I wasn't a big fan beforehand. I admired the success they'd had, but I did become a fan after working with them, I will tell you that. And I feel fortunate to have worked on two of the best-known songs they've done. I have read that both Keith and Mick had thought that "Brown Sugar" and "Honky Tonk Women" were the most commercial singles that they had done, and I felt honored that I'd been in on one of them.
Did you cut all the basic tracks here?
They did some overdubbing later, of backgrounds, saxophone and acoustic guitar. But electric guitars, lead vocals, piano and even the percussion was done right there — Jagger did that. Mick Taylor was on those sessions, of course, and during "Wild Horses" Jim Dickinson showed up, from Memphis. What happened was that their touring piano player, who was also their road manager, Ian Stewart, played on "Brown Sugar" some, but during "Wild Horses" Jim Dickinson was out behind where we put the guitar amps. Do you remember Paul Simon's "Kodachrome" where we went to double time and the tack piano comes in, the piano kind of goes crazy? That was our tack piano, an old upright piano — we put tacks on the hammers so it sounded like a honky tonk. Anyway, Jim was back there just tiddling on it, playing along with what they had settled on as the groove, and Keith walked by and said, "Hey, you need to play that!"
Let's try to reconstruct how "Brown Sugar" was tracked. First, what mics did you have set up, starting with the drums?
We only had three mics on the drums. We ran a Neumann U47 up over the top, about nose high to the drummer. We had a high stand out in front, with the mic facing downward at the kit, from the bass drum in with a little boom that came over the snare. It gave a good overview of the whole kit, so you could play with a lot of dynamics and you could get an incredible sound. In fact, Charlie Watts wanted to buy that microphone! But of course, I wouldn't sell it. He couldn't get over the sound we were getting. On the bass drum we used the E-V 666, a fantastic dynamic mic for the time. It was on a little stand looking to the backside of the drum. Then I had a hi-hat mic, which I think was another [E-V] RE-15, though it could have been a little [E-V] 635A — that remains in question. The RE-15 was a better mic, had more response. We avoided using the 635A unless we had to. Actually, if not the RE-15 it might have been an SM57, more likely than the 635A.
And Charlie brought all his own drums?
Yes, he brought all of this own kit.
What guitar was Keith playing?
It was a Gibson, but not a Les Paul. I think it was a SG, and as I recall it was black. I remember it had those sharp horns on the cutaways. That's what he played most of the time he was here.
And Mick Taylor?
Taylor, to my recollection, was playing a Strat. And guess what we came up with for Bill Wyman? Do you remember those Plexiglas body basses that were around then? I checked with David Hood later and he says it was a Dan Armstrong. So to the best of our recollection, that's what it was. He played through David's Fender Bassman setup, the tube head and separate box.
And the guitar amps?
Keith played a Fender Twin, and so did Mick Taylor, and they brought those in with them. The loudness on those tracks really came from Keith. I had it put in that back booth and shut the door on it.
So Mick's was out in the room?
Yeah, it was out, set where I normally played. If you looked from the control room it was on the left side, about the middle, facing toward the front. You see, we had all these wonderful baffles, covered with burlap, with that pink insulation underneath. We would corner off the sound with a couple of baffles up against each other. It would just knock the directness off, it took a lot of top end off.
So you could balance it out, but not stop leaking altogether.
Exactly, you couldn't really snuff the sound out. It wasn't as evident in the other mics, but it was there.
How did you mic the guitars?
On the guitar amplifiers, let's see, there were two different ones — on Mick's I had a Shure SM57, and on the other I was using... I might have been using a RE-15 on Keith. But I had a real problem with Keith because he was running a Fender Twin amp WIDE open, I mean that sucker was getting it. I had a real problem with distortion going on, but I happened to remember that my maintenance guy had left me a 20dB pad that he had made, so I just stuck it in-between. So I dropped that level before it hit the front of the Universal Audio and it saved the day. Otherwise, I would have been fucked. I still thank God for that. I would have been screwed. So on Keith's amp... oh no, I remember what was on his amp, a RCA 77DX, because I was having to get that level down any way I could, it was a ribbon mic. With the pad and that RCA, I made it, just barely. A lot of that had to do with how it sounded, and I was always real pleased with that guitar sound.
I assume you close-mic'ed the amps.
Yes, they were mic'ed about 2 or 3" from the grille cloth, and with the Twins we would get right in front of one of the two speakers. I'd make sure that both were working all right and that one didn't have a hole.
Did Keith blow any speakers in those sessions?
No, they all held up.
How about the piano mics?
On the piano I was using only one mic, not two, so I had to move it around to find the hot spot. I'm going to have to think on that one. I think it was a U47, that was the other one, because three was all we had. And we used them all on every session. Jagger sang on a U47.
So the U47 on Jagger, that was a live vocal track? Or was it overdubbed?
I don't think so, not unless he had to fix something in London. The only overdub I remember was the percussion that he did. He had mono earphones of course, and they were hearing what the board was hearing, they couldn't get a separate mix.
Did you have a mic on the bass amp?
