You grew up in Minneapolis?
Yeah, I did. I went to the University of Minnesota. I left Minneapolis in '92.
You were working with Jesse Johnson, doing production, engineering, and performing.
Exactly. For me, learning how to play music and the curiosity of electronics, like taking apart my dad's stereos, happened at the same time. I remember borrowing one of the little, flat cassette recorders. We'd tape off the speakers at home from the radio if one of my favorite songs came on. Then we'd hook that up to my dad's system so we could hear it; just experimenting.
Did you go to school for recording or music?
I was at the university for computer science, and I was working at Honeywell's undersea division. I had a scholarship there. When I got into Jesse's band, playing keyboards, I gave it all up. My dad was furious! I was like, "School was the fallback for music. This tour is right here, right now."
Did that lead to studio work with Jesse?
Yeah. On his albums he did most of the music by himself, but every once in a while he would have somebody come in and do parts that weren't his forte. He had me come in and play string pads. He's crazy on the keyboards. For his style, he's sick with it. He didn't need me to do any of that. But I would come in and do other parts. That's when our relationship started to grow in the studio. He had a big [Soundcraft] TS24 48-channel board with two [tape] machines, but in a room that wasn't that big. There wasn't always an engineer. I was learning, and sometimes when it was time to mix a record he'd have an engineer come in and mix and I'd watch them. Then we started writing music together.
And producing other artists, right?
Yeah. Our biggest song was "Nights Like This" for After 7. That moment that song ended up having in the movie, The Five Heartbeats, is still priceless. We also had songs in White Men Can't Jump. It was a pretty good run.
What led to moving to L.A.?
In Minneapolis it was three camps. It was Jesse's camp, Prince's camp, and it was Terry and Jimmy's camp [Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis]. I worked with Terry and Jimmy when I worked with The Time with Jesse. But if I went there, it would cut off the Jesse thing. And if I went with Prince… People weren't collaborating back then the way they are now. Everything was secretive. Everything was competitive. It's a whole new era now that we're into. It's amazing how it's changed.
Were you looking for a different environment?
Yeah. Music was changing at the time, and the Minneapolis sound wasn't a thing no more. Some of the records me and Jesse were doing were hip-hop records, but it was a combination of hip-hop and R&B hooks, which is now the standard. Back then people asked, "Why is there singing on it? This isn't underground."
It'd be hard for someone to understand if they hadn't lived through that era!
Right. Now every rapper sings. I came to L.A. so I could do my own thing and not be in somebody else's camp. Me and Jesse are still cool; I talked to him last week. I needed to stretch out to make my own thing happen. There were enough people in Minneapolis doing what they were doing, but the business was out here.
What was some of the early L.A. work you took on?
When I first came out, I was working with Oliver Leiber. Because he was from Minneapolis, and he had worked with Paula [Abdul], Ta Mara & the Seen, and so on. I started a couple records with him, and both of those records got dropped. I produced "Grazin' in the Grass" for George Howard, then I signed a publishing deal with Interscope, and I started shopping songs. I produced half of Shello [The Homegirl] for Giant Records; the other half was produced by DJ Quik. I was doing a lot of hip-hop. Underground rappers; nothing that popped super huge. Then I started working with Billy Preston.
Right! How did that come about?
Well, that meeting came from Oliver. I had met Billy a year or two before we started working together. Oliver used to have this jam session; everybody was coming through. One day Oliver had Billy come. Billy remembered me and hit me up. He had an album he was trying to do, and it was all inside of his keyboard. I helped him take it from there.
You ended up playing shows with him, right?
Yeah. I still trip on that. Honestly, when I was a kid, my dad had his records. His music was so amazing. It was a dream come true working with him. So much talent and so born for music.
How much touring did you do with Billy over the years?
Off and on for about five years, playing bass. Then the last year I started playing keyboards – the horn parts and such – with him. We did the Montreux Jazz Festival and a bunch of dates in Spain, about a couple years before he passed.
Is that how you met [drummer] Chris Dave back then?
No, I met Chris when I was working with Mint Condition. He was 19. My brother's in Mint Condition [Keri Lewis]. I mixed some of their records and ended up going on the road to mix front-of-house in the States and when they did a Toni Braxton tour in Europe. That's how me and Chris got tight. Chris is the one who brought me in to Robert Glasper. It really all started with Robert Glasper. That launched the whole mixing thing for me. I was doing it, but I wasn't working with everybody I'm working with right now.
What was your role initially with Robert Glasper?
Me and Chris had been doing music together. Some of it's still coming out. He was like, "Yo, I'm doing this record with Rob. I think I can convince him to fly you out." These aren't big budgets, but they had to fly me to New York because that's where they were cutting the record [in 2009]. They were doing Double Booked. Half of it was the [The Robert Glasper] Trio, and half of it was the [The Robert Glasper] Experiment. He was like, "You've gotta do the Experiment." It ended up being the greatest thing ever for me. Chris was looking out for himself; he knew his drums were going to sound killer! They hadn't sounded like that yet for him. We did the Double Booked side, and things started picking up. Robert had hit onto the thing; people were starting to hear where he was going with it.
There's this intersection of hip-hop, R&B, and jazz, and sometimes live instruments, that don't sound like live instruments.
Right.
To be adept at that on the engineering end is different.
That's true. I feel it's a carryover from doing a lot of hip-hop before I hooked up with Rob and them; trying to treat instruments to sound like samples and the way hip-hop sounds. Sounds that have been mastered, then sampled and crunched. Then they get compressed again, and then that record gets mixed and mastered. That's my philosophy with some of these sounds. I'm going to beat it up a whole bunch of times, and then it's going to sound like a drum machine in a way, but it's going to play like Chris because he's playing it. It's not programmed, but it's gonna smack. It's gonna hit you.
What are some of the techniques you use for that?
I didn't go to school for it. Somebody asked me one time, "Are you a big fan of parallel processing? I'm doing a thesis on this." I said, "I dunno what you're talking about! I don't do that." But then I started reading in magazines and learning, and I realized that's what I'd been doing. I call it my "crunch channel," where I'm going to beat it up and put way too much processing on. Chris will be mad because it doesn't sound like drums anymore. Then I'm going to make it uglier, and then he's going to love it, and we're going to blend it with the original sound; that's parallel processing. I go extreme with the channel that I'm blending in. There are no manuals for it; I just experiment. I listen to other samples too. I'll think, "Hmm, that sound sounds like it's got a lot of room in it, but it's compressed too." I try to replicate what I hear on other samples, and on big records that are hip-hop that are machines. Once that came along, peoples' ears became attuned to it. The drums have to hit hard, otherwise it feels soft.
I get that with rock mixes too.
Totally. Those go all the way. They'll use triggers. That's gotta be all the way.
Some of the coolest sounds you're getting use quite a bit of mids and low-mid information on the kick drum. A chunky thud, but not too much where it starts to sound shitty. How do you keep that in check?
When it's a project that I record, I have the balance and the benefit. I use three mics on the kick. Each mic I use for its own thing; the head mic is for the head sound. I'm going to roll off that low low on the head, right?
Because it rings out and hangs there.
And I don't want it to phase at all and interfere with the low that I'm going to get from the sub. Then the third one I use is an [AKG C]414. That's going to capture fatness, but still some of the air and some of the room. I use each one for its own thing and try not to let them overlap too much.
Frequency-wise?
Exactly. I pay attention to make sure that they're in phase with each other. It's something that I get better at every time. I get recordings to mix all the time where the snare is completely out of phase. They don't check it; they don't hear it. They don't understand why it doesn't have that smack.
It's fighting itself.
Exactly! Then room sound, too. Some of these records have been recorded in these huge-ass rooms. Then, when we [Robert Glasper Experiment] did Black Radio, that wasn't a huge room. I feel the rooms color where it ends up; it's a big part of the sound.
The way you're tracking, there's likely to be sound bleed.
Yeah. The great part is that with Rob and them; everything they do, there is no overdubbing. There's almost never even a second take. He's a magician of getting the vibe. It took me a minute to get used to those sessions. Rob is all about capturing a moment. That moment's going to be fed by the vibe he sets. He sets that vibe by having all his friends come through to the session. It's there, because they're giving him energy and he's giving them energy. It's all evident in the recording. It's all there. I prefer to work with it quiet, and to be able to hear, but often I can't because there are 20 people in the room. It's about the vibe. The vibe's going to show up on the record, and we're going to work out all the other things later.
Is part of that always being in record mode? I would imagine you'd be scared to death to miss something.
Yes. They got used to it when they first started working with me. They would say, "Did you get that?" "Of course!" I worked with people like Billy and Jesse. These guys are brilliant. Everything they're playing is magic, so if you don't have the red light on, you've failed! "You didn't capture that moment. You had one job!" [laughs]
Are you going down early and setting up for these sessions?
Yeah. They're part of that too. Rob will be like, "Oh, yeah; let me set up here." Usually it depends on whatever room we're in and where the drums have got to go. Are the drums isolated? Are any in the room? We build it around that. Then we're good about getting sounds. Me and Chris can go, and it's faster and faster every time, but nobody's rushing anything. Once the sound is good, then they're going to hang out some more so that the vibe is there, and then they're going to play. You never want to have to worry about any of that once they're recording. I definitely do as much prep before they come, and then we prep together sound-wise before we are going to do takes.
You know that scenario where you're getting rushed; people run in and start playing ideas and you don't even have enough mics up yet.
Oh, yeah. I'm there at least two hours before they come. They can't touch anything that's not mic'd. I know for sure by the time they get in that the red light is on and it's going to be a close approximation to how the sound should be. Again, it's magic. Some of the songs they end up with are like, "Man, I had this idea on my way over here on the train. Check this out!" Rob walks in, sits down at the piano, and starts playing. He's teaching Derrick [Hodge, bass] the changes. Then he goes, "Oh, wait. You changed that a little bit. What did I just do?" We rewind the tape, because it's going. You can't miss that.
With the Black Radio albums and all the guest vocals and rap performers, are they coming down and doing those live with the band?
On Black Radio there were probably over half the people in the studio. As far as the features, We had Lupe [Fiasco], Ledisi, Lalah [Hathaway], and Stokley [Williams, vocals and percussion]. Erykah [Badu] and MeShell [Ndegeocello] did theirs in their own spots. Then Black Radio 2 was somewhat of a mix, but a lot of people came through. Macy [Gray], Faith [Evans], and Common came through. On the upcoming one [Black Radio 3], all the cats were there. It's crazy. Herbie Hancock's there at the same time.
