How much of a lead time do people give you as a mastering engineer?
You know, in the early days when I started out this whole thing, it was in '91. There was always a production coordinator. People would book the mastering session about six weeks ahead. Sometimes three months ahead. Nowadays, they get finished with the record, book the mastering, and expect you to be available instantly.
I see that all the time. Especially with independent bands or artist-financed projects.
We figured out a way to do it though. You get together, gather the team and say, "This is the game we're playing, this is the field we're on. How are we going to make this work?" Then we do it.
What kinds of things have you implemented in order to have faster turnaround?
Well, it's how fast, how affordable, and how good. The "how good" thing is covered, because of what we do. The "how affordable" angle is how do we figure out how to make the rate, just to pay our bills? Really, we're not getting rich. At the end of the day, when you add up rent, the employee costs, taxes, and all the things that add up to make your overhead, your goal is to make at least that number. Then it's "how fast," which is what you asked about. Because we're all analog, it's not as simple as opening a file, doing some tweak, running an export, and you're done — although that is the expectation of (all) the younger generations coming into the business. They have it in their mind that this is the way to do recording, mixing, and mastering. It takes communication between the person in the mastering room (where you put up the file, convert it to the analog, put it through the board, make some tweaks, re-record it to digital) and your production guy. He's working on that while you're working on the next thing (that somebody wants). It's really like a chain of events. You've got one person working in the room — or maybe two — and another person working in the production department. Then there's someone who's communicating with everybody. Sometimes the communication is, "I have no further updates" which tells them that we're still in a holding pattern while we're working on this. That's very important communication. The communication is as important as everything else. If they want something super quick, they will feel secure if they get communication about it. You could sit there and say, "It's not ready yet" and then get into some discussion about why it's not ready; but if you constantly communicate and update, they can see that you're working on it.
What is the production department, just so our readers understand the process?
When we are in the mastering room, it's all analog. The tape, or the digital file, gets converted so that we can do our processing in the analog domain. One hundred percent of what we do has been done that way. It does slow things down a bit, although we've developed our system. When we record it back to digital, we have a raw file. That file needs to be scoured for any little tics and clicks because, in today's world, most of what comes in needs cleaning up. Very rarely, if ever, does it happen here that we add tics and pops, because we pay such close attention to our clocking and all that. But in the mix environment, particularly in the new generations of people who are working with plug-ins and all that, all kinds of clocking issues can happen. You're also in an environment where it's so revealing, and they've come from an environment of working on headphones in a bedroom somewhere. We start to hear all this stuff that people haven't heard. The music has to be scoured for that. We have some digital tools that can clean that up. Then we have to make it all faded and nice. We have to then go through sample-rate conversion. If we can, we like to work in high-res, so we master and record a high-res file and then everything else gets made from that. We've just recently gotten comfortable with sample-rate conversion. We never were before, but it's now become a part of our reality. That process has to happen. Any time you do something with a file, it has to be listened to. If you're doing a whole album and you do certain things to it, you have to calculate all the things you're going to do. Every time you do something, it needs to be scoured. It's actually an incredibly time-consuming procedure in production to get that file. Once the mastering is done, once the feel of the sound, the tonal structure has been balanced and vibed out (i.e., mastered), there's a lot of work to be done on that file. It takes a lot of time. We do what's called a null test, which is running an out-of-phase version of the song. When you run them both together with sample-accurate sync, if there's a dropout or some kind of mute, it'll present itself that way. There's that. When we give something to somebody, part of the reason we're in business is because of the sense of security we create. That includes the vibe of the tonal structure, the mastering, and the sound, but it is not limited to that. It also includes the knowing that it will be rock solid. "Oh, it came from there? It's going to be nailed. You don't have to listen to it or scour it." Nobody's going to call asking about some little crackle they heard. Nobody's going to call and say, "Hey, this ramps up and fades out too quickly." Over time, one of the things that comes from the repetition we develop is the solidity and security that once it's gone through our system, you don't have to worry about it. As a result of that, there are a lot of clients here, the old-school clients, who are on to the next project. They don't even listen to what we do, because they just know my work, the vibe I create, and the rock solid nature of the product.
That's what you want to deliver. It's a cut above, in some cases.
There are a lot of independent mastering engineers working in mobile environments, I suppose. One thing I've noticed, as I look at that scene, is, yeah, there's some level of this QC, but when you're in a facility, the people who work at facilities that I know take that to another level, and it's part of the service. As a result of this other industry that's cropping up, people are starting to think of mastering as simply making something sound a certain way, exporting it, and shipping it. That's valid. It's a new thing. Technology has allowed people to create this. Maybe they're doing it now where they otherwise couldn't. You have to respect it. But the way that we roll, and the way that I was trained to, is to do what I still do.
Speaking of that, how did you end up as a mastering engineer? I know you went to school at Berklee, but what was the path that led up to mastering, as opposed to other parts of the recording arts?
I graduated from Berklee College of Music in 1991. My parents were living in Washington, DC. My dad was a journalist in South Africa, and he decided that my brother and I shouldn't be raised in South Africa during apartheid. He was a political journalist who was against the system down there. His newspaper posted him in Washington, DC, and we all shipped out there. From there, he made it his goal to figure out how we were going to stay permanently in this country, which he obviously accomplished. Through that journey, I ended up finding myself at Berklee. I graduated in '91.
When you were going to Berklee, what did you study?
I studied film scoring. The Music Production and Engineering program there had five times more applicants than slots. I remember seeing this guy all the time, Don Puluse. Wonderful man. He was chair of the MP&E department at the time. He had to reject me because my high school grades weren't good enough, so I studied film scoring, which is essentially composition with some technical techniques of scoring. It turns out that it was a great way to go for me, because what I would have learned in MP&E, I learned on the job. I ended up with two educations. I was very happy with that education. The Berklee degree has turned out to be something that's a valuable asset in today's market of the music business.
In the '80s, I always thought of it as the place where all the guitar guys would go.
It was. It was a jazz school and a metal school. Now they've built it into something special. We've had a number of people from Berklee working here.
How did you end up in L.A.?
Without any plans, I went back to DC. Within about a day, I realized, "Here I am. I've prepared myself for life." I never thought about that while I was at Berklee. I persuaded my mom to "lend" me her car, which was a fairly new Nissan Sentra. It was the first new car she'd ever bought. I said that I'd bring it back in a year, and if she could let me take it and go to L.A., I'd be eternally grateful. I headed west. When I came out here, it was before cell phones and everything. I knew one guy who lived in West L.A. I eventually found a pay phone, told my friend I was here, and started crashing on his couch. I started the process of getting myself integrated into L.A. I quickly found a few Berklee friends.
Berklee's always a really good networking background for graduates.
It is. It's better now than it was, but it was definitely a good thing. I decided, at that point, that I just wanted a job in the music business. It didn't matter what it was. The guy whose couch I was crashing on knew somebody who interviewed for a job, but didn't get it. I went for that job over at the Mastering Lab. I never knew what a mastering engineer was before I took that job. The title of the job was called Box Boy... this is such an antiquated title. It should be Box Person, but those were different times. When you cut lacquers you have to assemble a box with a little spike so that these lacquers will fit in there. The job meant picking up sandwiches, cleaning the tape machines, cleaning all the U-matic 1630 videotape machines. Very quickly I got to know [owner] Doug Sax. I was trying to get involved, saying things like, "I could do this!" He'd say, "No way, you've got to have some gray hair." I didn't take no for an answer and he eventually realized I was quite serious. He slowly and steadily started to trust me with his legacy, which I have always respected.
Doug had been doing this for how long, at this point?
He started in '67, and that was '91. Like 25 years, which is funny, because that's how long I've been doing it now.
So what would you say to someone like that?
That's a good question! The thing is, I had nothing to lose. I had a minimum wage job. I didn't fully grasp the true nature of their standing in the industry, in the beginning. I just didn't take no for an answer. Over time, they'd ask me what I thought, and I'd say, "Hmm, I think it should have a little more of this or that." One of the engineers left, and they were searching for a new one. I started stepping in. I was just the punk kid in the studio, yet they needed the work done. I started to do the work, and it just stuck. Very quickly, a lot of high profile artists wanted to work with me and connect with me, simply because those were the sort of people who came to the studio, and I happened to be there. I embraced that.
The Mastering Lab was one of the most renowned mastering studios, at that point.
I embraced it. I lived the part, and I made sure that I was going to bring something to the table. I was going to make the facility look good, and make people feel good for choosing to come there. I got to know some great people. One of the guys I got to know at that time is still one of my favorite people in this industry, Jackson Browne. Anybody who knows him feels what I'm saying here. He makes an effort to understand every human being he encounters. He relates, and he talks to you. So accomplished and successful. He's an American icon in my view;. I mean he's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and was introduced by Bruce Springsteen.
As he should be!
He's got a very particular way of working. A lot of times when engineers were "done" he wanted to explore something, and I was this kid who was thrilled to explore whatever he wanted. What's remarkable about that relationship is that it stayed fully intact. I just mastered his latest record, and we were both reminiscing about how far we've come and how long we've known each other. I had a slew of great records last year, and that was definitely one of them.
It's a nice, long relationship too.
Well, I understand him. I know how he works. I was the guy who picked up the sandwiches when I met him, and here he is working on the latest record with me, 22 or 23 years later. To me, that feeds my soul at the highest level.
When did you branch out on your own? What happened at the Mastering Lab?
Doug was interested in moving up to Ojai, which he started taking measures to do around 2000. There was never any type of official agreement that we had. We just kept the Mastering Lab open. All of us in this business are creative people. Musicians, mastering engineers, and mixing engineers are all recording, producing, songwriting, performing... it's an industry filled with creative people, and creative people tend to want to do things the way they want to do things. The older and more experienced that they get, the more that comes around. How skilled are you, as to how imposing you are, is one thing; but I think, for me, I had a vision of what I wanted a facility to be. A certain type of focus, a certain type of look. I personally had a flavor that was attractive to me, in terms of the feel of a place. That requires a budget. I wanted the freedom, without any approvals, to pursue my creative ideas. The feel of a place, the doctrine of a place, the way you run things. I never had that set up really over there. It was cool. I had a team of people, and I worked there with my own crew for some years, but it wasn't exactly how I'd envision running a place. I decided that when Doug moved to Ojai, it was like I was running my own business.
You were still running the Lab in Hollywood?
I was running it, but it never was a place that I could fully realize, in terms of the doctrine, the feel of the place, just the whole thing. All the little elements that added up. There were some elements missing. I decided that it would be better for those around me, as well as for myself, for me to come in and put a doctrine down, a realization, a vision, and see who wanted to be a part of it. I looked around and found this place that we used to be in. I told Doug about it and tried to have an opportunity for him to work with me continuing something there. We talked about it, and it was all good, but I think that we both ultimately decided that it was better if I just set up shop. I had worked toward that, and he was in Ojai. He didn't want to be in Hollywood. It made perfect sense. We both knew it, so I opened the doors and we got to work in 2005.
Did a number of your clients migrate over with you?
I was pretty surprised. They all did. I thought people were going to be freaked out and worried about the new place. The truth of the matter is, they have confidence in the person. If I call them and tell them where they're going to find me, they just want to know where to park. The rest of it's on me. If I fuck it up, then I won't see them again, and they know that I know that.
Was it a big leap though, working to invest the money and set up the space? Were you nervous yourself, as far as taking that leap?
Completely. I had sleepless nights.
I remember my own experiences with my recording studio.
At the time, I was living with my now ex-girlfriend. We were living together, and owned the house together. At the time, there was a home equity line of credit that we had. I'd been collecting equipment over the years, so I had a lot. But, as you can imagine, when you take over a facility, you have to do it up. That costs a few bucks. Plus, in a commercial facility, you have to put quite a bit down to get into it. This is all that I've ever done. This is what I've dedicated my life of service to. This is what my passionate craft is. I thought, "Why don't I just put my house on the line?" I am grateful to my ex-girlfriend, because she could have lost her house due to my crazy ideas. It pretty much resulted in sleepless nights, complete anxiety, nervousness, and a feeling of, "What the fuck have I done?" When you're in your late-30s, hitting 40, and you do dedicate your life to a career, put the time in, and develop the track record and pedigree, this is the play to make. Otherwise, you're going to keep not making that play or being satisfied with your creative mind. I wanted to fulfill the entirety of my creative vision. I was willing to throw everything I had on the line for it. The money came from a home equity line of credit, and we ran lean. We still have a lean setup. We don't want to increase our expenses to the point where we have to increase the rates and charge clients for things that they don't need to be paying for. We just charge them for the service. That's it.
You don't have a chef who comes in?
I'm the chef. You've got your employees, your rent costs, and expenses like that, but all the gear's paid for.
That's a point that comes up a lot with recording studios and mastering studios. If you have a lot of loans against the equipment that's in your facility, those loans can easily be the death of it.
Sure. And the equipment depreciates so quickly! Fortunately, I collected a lot of that over time. I made sure to continue that. I made sure that there were, at minimum, two pieces of everything in the building. There were a couple of reasons. First, it allows us to have a second room. But, really, the first motivating factor behind that was, in the early days, if a piece of gear broke down, I'd have to send it to the tech and close the shop for five days while someone was waiting on me. Now you've got two seconds of downtime if something breaks. It's really wonderful. That luxury also gives us a second room. We're very lucky with that.
When did you open the second room?
The second room's been sort of on and off. We kind of had a second room in here since the beginning. We've had the gear for it that we'd moved around the facility, but now it's been in here permanently, for probably a few years at this point.
Is it really identical equipment?
Yeah.
I assume you have another mastering engineer working here?
Yeah. Reuben Cohen. Reuben's been with me since the Mastering Lab days. He's really killing it. He's working with people like Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes. Lots of film soundtracks, lots of hip-hop.
You've had a long history with T Bone Burnett. When did that start?
